Monday, July 18, 2005

Was the Christian Voice Wrong?

On the 6th of July, Glue Guy posted about a controversy going on between two UK entities: The Co-operative Bank (TCB) and the Christian Voice (CV). TCB accuses the CV of spreading hate speech. Glue Guy asks some pertinent questions concerning this controversy, namely did the CV act vituperatively when dealing with the issue of homosexuality and homosexual rights?

Below is an excerpt of TCB’s press release of the charges they claim against the CV. I have also included an excerpt of the CV’s response to the bank’s accusations.

Press Release: The Co-operative Bank

The Co-operative Bank asked Christian Voice to close its account on the basis of the hateful and offensive statements they peddle, and their aim of stigmatising people who are homosexual. Their statements go far beyond the view held by some Christians that 'homosexuality is a sin:' alleging that homosexuals are 'formed' via paedophilia (and that they will in turn propagate this further), and that their innate 'corruptness' renders them unfit for the police force.

Many Christians and church groups have welcomed our stand and noted that this organisation is not the "voice" of Christianity. Freedom of speech requires a climate of respect and tolerance if it is to operate optimally. We accept that everyone has the right to freedom of thought on religion; however, we do not believe that this entitles people to actively encourage and practice discrimination. Like other extremists, this group would claim the benefits of freedom of speech for themselves, whilst seeking to deny them to others via the creation of a climate of hate.

Press Release: Christian Voice

Stephen Green, National Director of Christian Voice, said today: "The decision from the Co-operative Bank fits a pattern where politically-correct bully-boys try to attack Christian organisations, Christian symbols, the Bible, and in the case of Jerry Springer the Opera and BBC2, even the person of our Saviour."

Stephen Green retorted: "Of course we make ‘discriminatory pronouncements on grounds of sexual orientation’. We have been criticising homosexual rights ever since we started eleven years ago. Standing up for righteousness is what we do. In fact you could say there are dozens of such pronouncements in my own book "The Sexual Dead-End", which was published in 1992. It is a conviction of our Christian faith that homosexual activity is sinful; in fact that it is an abomination in the eyes of God. It is also a conviction of ours that the Lord Jesus shed His precious blood to forgive the sins of all who put their trust in Him, including sexually-active homosexuals.

Glue Guy says:

"It sounds on the surface like the Christian Voice has become a noisy gong. I Corinthians 13:1"

Glue Guy is correct in that Christians should speak out against sin in a spirit of love and I can see where he, and others, might think that "on the surface" the CV didn't act in a spirit of love; however, it has been my experience that the politically correct crowd or those actively living in overt sin are quick to charge those who expose and speak out against such lifestyles with being hateful and unchristian. The fact is that sometimes the truth hurts. I saw truth in what the CV was being accused of saying, however, I highly doubted that the CV actually stated it in a vituperative manner. So on I went to search and read in context what the CV had to say about homosexuality.

TCB stated that the CV "alleg[es] that homosexuals are 'formed' via paedophilia (and that they will in turn propagate this further)...". The CV wrote an essay, Britain In Sin, which outlines Britain’s social problems and how they relate to the Ten Commandments. Below is what the CV said about homosexuality and pedophilia in context. As you will see, their statements about pedophilia were neither hateful nor disrespectful, but rather these statements are the very sad truth of the matter. In their Family Law section of the Seventh Commandment, the CV was merely asserting known facts for one of the many causes of homosexuality.

Britain In Sin


8. Family Law Act 1996

Around 50% of men cannot expect to bring up their own children. Household size has declined dramatically as families have split up. An additional demand on housing will arise not just from the increased number of smaller homes needed to house people when families split up. Children are and will be increasingly leaving home after the introduction of new adult male mothers' "boy-friends". One of the many complex roots of homosexuality in males is an emotionally distant or absent father. Another, in both males and females, is sexual abuse. It is bvecoming [sic] well-established that homosexual men and other abusers seek out divorced and single mothers and move in to gain access to the children. The cycle is then repeated, or the child moves out, or both.

In 2003, the CV wrote a 16 page exposé, Homosexuality and the Police, on the gay agenda, the Gay Police Association and the police departments' (England's and Wales') complicity in advancing the gay agenda. I encourage everyone to read for themselves what the CV has to say (I've provided a few excerpts) because they are right on the mark. Not only should TCB be applauding the CV for their exposition of the deleterious effects of homosexuals and their agenda, but they should also be demanding the police force rethink their position on the matter. Woe to them who call evil good and good evil!

Homosexuality and the Police

See: Recruitment Policy

As a result of pressure from ‘gay activists’ many if not all police forces now place recruitment adverts for practising homosexuals in the ‘gay press’. This is a decision driven by political correctness and expediency, but is it wise in pure policing terms?

  • Homosexual police are involved in some of the most disgusting perversions imaginable; how can they bring clean hands to any police investigation?
  • Homosexual police are corrupted by what they do; how can they investigate cases of corruption?
  • Their whole life is lived in denial; how can they be expected to tell the truth in Court?
  • Homosexual police are likely to seek sexual encounters in public conveniences and in the open (most homosexual men do); are they going to take part in exercises against ‘cottaging’ and ‘cruising’?
  • Their sexual behaviour is deviant and indecent; how can they uphold public decency and morality?
  • The police are supposed to be impartial; does the deliberate recruitment of shamelessly homosexual men and women explain the recent explosion of cases brought against Gospel preachers and pro-life campaigners? (emphasis added)
  • Many homosexual men will have been interfered with at a young age, and be sexually attracted to boys of around that age as a result; are homosexual police going to be exempted from investigations into paedophile activities?
  • The police serve the monarch of a constitutionally Christian country; how does the police force square that fact with the recruitment of officers who commit acts which are an abomination in the eyes of Almighty God?

See: Weakness

The case of Brian Paddick is an object lesson in why homosexuals should not be in the police service.

See: Sex Offender Policeman Gets His Job Back

A ‘gay’ policeman sacked after being convicted of indecency with a boy of 16 got his job back.

See: Sexual Abuse

Another route into homosexuality is that of being sexually young. Here, too, divorce often plays a part, when an unrelated a [sic] sexual designs on children moves in with the mother (who normally has custody today). Identification with the abuser (the Stockholm syndrome) leaves abused child looking for similar sexual experiences in adulthood. Superintendent Michael Hames, now retired from the Scotland Yard Squad, said that homosexual men are attracted to boys of a similar age to that at which they were first abused - not that they ever saw it, from their perspective - as abuse. We are all different. The same emotional trauma which turns one young woman to seek sexual satisfaction amongst her own sex will leave another completely unscathed. The lack of a father for one boy may be of little importance - for another it may leave scars of resentment, and for another, he will be found seeking consolation in a public lavatory. You would need a heart of stone not to weep for those caught up in homosexuality. Those who portray homosexuality as simply an expression of diversity, or as natural and normal, and thereby lead others astray, will be called to judgment at a greater court than any on this earth.

I thought the piece was written in a respectful, civil and loving manner. Actually, they were being very kind and only touched the surface of what truly goes on behind the scenes within the homosexual community. My only complaint is that the format was a bit tabloidish. I can only surmise that the CV wanted to get their point across as to how appalled they were at the whole "Gay Pride" march (especially in police uniform), which in and of itself is tabloidish, and they wanted to get peoples' attention. I'm not that familiar with the CV's publishing practices, but their essay on Britain In Sin was done very tastefully, in my humble opinion.

The point is, the information needed to be exposed because most people are not aware of the true depravity of the gay lifestyle for all they see is the loveable and zany Jack and the level-headed and witty Will on Will & Grace; or the ubiquitous, misunderstood, warm, nice, well-meaning “gay” person who just wants to express his/her “love” (there is no love involved in this lifestyle, but rather it is full on lust...big difference) on any one of America’s sitcoms, dramas or movies; or they may have a gay friend or two who appear on the surface to be moral and upstanding citizens. I have gay friends and acquaintances, too, and, for the most part, they are very nice, intelligent, talented, community-minded people. Some I have had the opportunity to get know a little more personally and am privy to their personality traits, relationships and lifestyles and they all have serious problems: psychologically, emotionally and relationally.

Also, I have done extensive (though not exhaustive) research on homosexuality: the pathology, the lifestyle and the agenda; therefore, I am well aware of the collusion between the so-called “scientific” world, the psychiatric world, the liberal ideological world and the secular media world and their efforts to advance the homosexual agenda. Their stategy is very clever, methodical and subtle. Unfortunately, the agenda appears to be working quite well and is right on track pushing full steam ahead. Why, even the church has jumped on board! Contrary to popular belief the lifestyle is far from innocuous and should be exposed and rejected at every turn.

It is understandable that the homosexual community would try to distance themselves or secrete such facts as named in the CV’s article, but it absolutely amazes me that there are those in the heterosexual and CHRISTIAN communities who would be willing accomplices in the cover-up of such information. I realize that some in the Christian community are misguided wherein they believe that they should not speak out passionately or forcefully against sin, namely homosexuality, because they misunderstand the biblical meaning of "love". They also woefully misunderstand Jesus’ teachings and his example because they seem to forget that he also rebuked those who refused to repent for their sin. The reason Christians are to speak out (in true biblical love) and must do so is to save souls from hell and to save society from corruption. Yes, corruption.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil companions corrupt good morals.

There is a balance to everything that God teaches in His word. Yes, we are to do everything in the spirit of love, but speaking the truth in love isn’t always pleasant no matter how hard one tries to be civil and gentle about it. The word of God offends, it divides and separates.

Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division.

Jesus loved the sinner, but did not tolerate the sin. When he encountered those in sin one-on-one he addressed their sin and told them to “go and sin no more.” Christians often mistake the love of God to mean the toleration of God, but the Bible clearly teaches that we are not to tolerate sin. Look how Jesus reacted to those whom he had encountered who did not receive Him and repent of their sin. He didn’t candy-coat how He felt about their rejection of Him. Jesus' motto was grace to the humble and law to the proud.

Luke 10:10-16 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you. But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city. Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell. He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Not once did I see any epithets from the CV in either of their articles. I saw a balance of love and outrage, concern and correction. I saw the voice of reason and compassion and an avenue for reconciliation. The CV’s article would not have been a point of debate in the Christian community or society as a whole just 25 years ago; instead, most would have been just as outraged as the CV and taken action against the PD. We’ve allowed the homosexual agenda to creep up on us while only a few in the church have set the trumpet to their mouths, sounding the alarm. The majority have effectively ignored the warnings and many have foolishly jumped the fence in support of the homosexual movement in erroneous answer to WWJD? The church is to be a light and to preserve the ways of the Lord not abandon them.

Matthew 5:13-14
Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an
hill cannot be hid.

The CV is doing what it is supposed to be doing. Britain started out as a Christian nation and this organization is merely trying to be a light and to be that salt so that their country doesn’t plummet into total depravity with its justice system paving the way. It may well be too late, but at least they are trying and are doing what God has commanded His people to do.

Soon it will be against the law to speak out against homosexuality in Britain, and America is probably next. Recently, Christians who were protesting peacefully at a gay rally (supported by our tax dollars!) in Philadelphia were arrested. (Chrisitans were met with vulgar acts and threats of violence from the rally participants.) Their crime? Hate! What was so hateful? Holding up signs with scripture on them. *tragedy of all tragedies!* Thankfully, the charges were dropped, but these people were inconvenienced by having to spend time in jail. It appears that it won't be long before those charges will stick so we should be praying and taking action in hopes that that day never comes to fruition. Speaking out against homosexuality is already illegal in Sweden and Canada.

I think the CV has summed up their article rather well and I’ll let them speak for themselves.

See: Sexual Healing

Becoming homosexual may not be a matter of choice, but staying homosexual certainly is. Christian healing - or the power of God, who is Almighty, can resolve the underlying pathologies and the homosexual life can be left behind. No one has to stay homosexual. There are men and women alive today who have walked away from homosexuality, dealing a deathblow to the bizarre idea that homosexuals are ‘born that way’. Although persecuted by homosexual activists because of the challenge they pose, Christian healing ministries lead the way. A spiritual force keeps some people homosexual. Others may leave each healing session only to go back to homosexual friends, who think they are mad to want to change.

The belief in a superior spiritual force, in the form of the Lord Jesus Christ, who is also a personal saviour, friend and helper, is invaluable in the process of repentance and healing. One man said: “I came to crisis as I realised that a homosexual lifestyle was not what God had planned for anyone’s life. Jesus made it clear through His example and teaching that people should remain single without sexual attachments or be faithful within marriage. I knew I had to change my life and go God’s way. As a 'gay' person that meant I was prepared to be single for the rest of my life. I found that, through His Spirit, God gave me the power to overcome temptation AND He has done what I thought impossible - God has so changed my life that I am now married with a family!”

Possible To Break Away

“Don’t get me wrong, the Christian life isn’t all plain sailing At times it can be very hard, but believe me, following Jesus is the best life there is! It’s worth giving up relationships and exciting experiences that are wrong, because the experience of God’s love, forgiveness and power is far more exciting - and it lasts forever!” Another letter, this time from a teenager: “This is just to let those of you who think they may be ‘gay’ know that it is not irreversible - I was, and am now well on the way to ‘recovery’! I am going to be 17 in a matter of days, and this has been a very turbulent year for me - sometimes in complete despair because of my enjoying looking at other guys, I have managed to turn that around, admittedly not completely yet... but I can now say I have come from being ‘gay’ to ‘bisexual’ and, being Christian, I hope soon to be solely straight.” “Christianity and homosexuality do not mix - the Bible says so, it was written by God, who loves us all, no matter what - if we really love Him we will not practise homosexuality- God did not make us to be homosexual, which means it is possible to break away from. Why would God make it possible for us to be ‘gay’ and then condemn it?”

Loving the Sinner

Who loves a homosexual more? He who encourages him to continue in what the Bible calls ‘an abomination’ or he who warns him and calls him to repent? The Bible is quite clear. Way back in Leviticus, in fact just between the two chapters which condemn sexual perversion, we read that love for our neighbour is equated with warning him: “Thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. ...thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. I am the LORD.” (Lev. 19:17-18) “Loving the Lord God means hating evil: “Ye that love the LORD, hate evil” (Psalm 97:10a) The same thought is in Paul’s letter to the Ephesians: “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.” (Eph. 5:11)

Reprove and Rebuke

In fact, if we do not warn our neighbour, a terrible fate awaits us: The Prophet Ezekiel was given this chilling word: “When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.” (Eze. 3:18)

The Apostle Paul writes to Timothy, an elder of the early church: “Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.” (2 Tim. 4:2) He uses similar words to the Christians in Thessalonica: “Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.”. (1 Thes. 5:14)

God uses us as an instrument of His mercy: “Say unto them, “As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways.” (Eze. 33:11)

Joy In Heaven

The Lord Jesus expresses the same thought: “I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.” (Luke 15:7)

One young man whom Jesus met thought he was right with God, but out of His love for the man, the Lord gave him a difficult challenge: “Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, “One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.” (Mark 10:2 1)

Warning a sinner is never easy, and warning a homosexual goes against the spirit of the age - indeed if Christians are not vigilant it could become illegal. There are always those who love the praise of men more than the praise of God. (John 12:43) “But the friends of the world are the enemies of God’s” as the Apostle James writes (Jas 4:4). James also writes of the reward for saving a sinner from death: “Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner
from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.” (Jas. 5:20)

My Brother’s Keeper

Those who confirm homosexuals in their pathological and perverted lifestyle show no love or compassion according to the Biblical witness. They are like heartless Cain crying: “Am I my brother’s keeper?” Let us pray that the church will become so strong in its love for God and our fellow man that it is willing, even in these dark days, to minister the healing and saving power of Christ to those in need. Let us pray for the courage to stand up for Christ Jesus and the truth at this time when even Chief Police Officers cannot tell the difference between right and wrong, clean and unclean, pure and corrupt. And let us pray that our leaders will turn back to God and lead our nation back to the paths of righteousness.

And, just for the record, homosexuality is not normal.

Dawn's Deliberations Copyright © 2005



At Tuesday, July 19, 2005 9:21:00 PM, Blogger Eddie said...

1Cr 14:33 For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

1Cr 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

1Cr 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1Cr 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

1Cr 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

1Cr 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

1Cr 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

1Cr 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

At Tuesday, July 19, 2005 9:37:00 PM, Blogger Dawn said...

Excuse me Eddie, but I'm not in church right now so I am free to speak as much as I want. Thank you very much. :-)

At Tuesday, July 19, 2005 10:08:00 PM, Blogger Testify To Love said...

Excellent read!

At Tuesday, July 19, 2005 10:37:00 PM, Blogger Dawn said...

Thanks Testify To Love! I'm glad you enjoyed it.

At Wednesday, July 20, 2005 10:11:00 AM, Blogger Leo said...

Hi Dawn,

I appreciate your thoughtfulness and study into this subject. I am glad to read that "below the surface" The Christian Voice did its homework and presented their arguments in a Christian manner. I am encouraged to read that some of the Christians in England are standing boldly for the truth. It is sad that this land in which the Lord did such wonderful works is turning away from him. I pray that revival breaks out in England as Martyn Lloyd Jones had hoped when he delivered his sermons on revival in the late 1950’s. I am reminded of the “older testament” promises that the land would vomit Israel out if they did not repent of their sins. I have to wonder if this “vomiting” is in progress in England.

It is easy to forget that these saints, CV, are on the front lines and under constant attack. Satan does not give up easily; he always strives to prevail against the gates of heaven. He does not easily give up that which he has gained. As you remind us it behooves Christians to thoroughly, and deliberately, examine the evidence before rendering an opinion.

We do have to remember that the homosexuals are in bondage to sin; a sin that is very difficult to overcome. They do need our love and compassion. Yet we do have the responsibility to stand for truth and protect our families. Oh, for the wisdom and strength to navigate these waters bravely and wisely and not sink in to compromise as so many have.

At Wednesday, July 20, 2005 9:27:00 PM, Blogger Dawn said...

GG: "I am glad to read that "below the surface" The Christian Voice did its homework and presented their arguments in a Christian manner."

You know, we have all, in one way or another, been influenced or indoctrinated with politically correct ideology and moral relativism that we feel it is wrong to say anything negative about virtually anyone's lifestyle. I was once influenced by it all myself, but the word of God brought me back to my senses.

GG: "I have to wonder if this “vomiting” is in progress in England."

Me, too, GG. I pretty much think it is. God is not mocked and he does still judge the nations.

GG: "We do have to remember that the homosexuals are in bondage to sin; a sin that is very difficult to overcome. They do need our love and compassion. Yet we do have the responsibility to stand for truth and protect our families. Oh, for the wisdom and strength to navigate these waters bravely and wisely and not sink in to compromise as so many have."

You are so right about the homosexual lifestyle being very hard to overcome, especially in a climate where good is evil and evil is good. There is such a strong delusion that the very elect are having a hard time believing the truth, but that has come due their compromise. Unfortunately.


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